I have been reading articles about the trampling death of a security guard at Walmart and am sickened that such a thing could happen. Scenario- security guard unlocks the doors and the crowd moves forward, guard is knocked down and then crushed by the human stampede.

It is also shocking to me that many people continued to shop after the announcement of the injury and subsequent death of the guard. Folks were upset that the store was closing. Apparently Walmart check-outs were running and folks were able to purchase whatever they had on their way out. The news stories are mixed on that point, but I hope the management closed the doors and made all the customers leave (per law enforcement directives) without checking them out!

In reader comments on the various accounts of the story, the question seems to be is it the fault of the store or the individuals in the crowd for causing the mans death. Regardless of the side of the issue you support, I just can't believe a man lost his life over BF sales.

Store is at fault...they encourage the "mad rush" mentality and do nothing to make it safe/orderly. It was inevitable and I'm surprised it isn't a regular happening.

yeah, I heard about it. It's hard to say if Walmart is liable, if they are, ALL stores are at risk of being just as liable which changes everything.

It's also hard to fault the people who actually put a foot on the person, probably being shoved from behind. Stampedes are not anything an individual can control as they occur from the back, not the people in the front, so the people who trampled the guard aren't the responsible people, persay.

I think the callousness after the fact is disturbing, but what could they do about it at the time, cancelling christmas sales is going to hurt people that had nothing to do with it. No different than if they closed my walmart because of what happened there. I had nothing to do with it, and sitting for 12 hours to go inside just to have it cancelled would suck.

I hate it for the security guard's family though.

If I was in a jury room though, Walmart corporation (not the store itself) would be MOST liable IMO. I don't fault the store since they were told by corporate to have this situation that was eventually going to happen sooner or later to some other BF company

Store is at fault...they encourage the "mad rush" mentality and do nothing to make it safe/orderly. It was inevitable and I'm surprised it isn't a regular happening.

individual stores are ill-equipped, ill-prepared to handle the sale that is forced on them from corporate HQ's. Nobody at that particular Wallyworld, to me, is at fault. They may end up taking the fall for it, but that's politics IMO.

I will also ammend the not closing down part. You do need to close as there needs to be an investigation of the death, and you can't do that with a gazillion people in and out of the store using the entrance/exit that is to be shut down for the investigation

individual stores are ill-equipped, ill-prepared to handle the sale that is forced on them from corporate HQ's. Nobody at that particular Wallyworld, to me, is at fault. They may end up taking the fall for it, but that's politics IMO.

I will also ammend the not closing down part. You do need to close as there needs to be an investigation of the death, and you can't do that with a gazillion people in and out of the store using the entrance/exit that is to be shut down for the investigation

Bullshit.
The store knew in advance (people just didn't appear) that there was a large crowd. The PD should of been called and things should of been handled way differently. I do NOT blame the entire store, but they do have a fault in this. The doors coming off the hinges (that happened correct??), was unexcuseable. Whoever did that bears a MAJOR part in this.

Yes, I also agree closing the store - the win

individual stores are ill-equipped, ill-prepared to handle the sale that is forced on them from corporate HQ's. Nobody at that particular Wallyworld, to me, is at fault. They may end up taking the fall for it, but that's politics IMO.


I don't fault that store...I fault corporate. Corporate needs contingency planning for oversized crowds. Should've been done LONG ago as they encourage the mad rush mentality. Their planning should've been handed down to each store...create a line, hand out numbers, etc. It ain't that hard.

yea, cops were needed to control it pre-door opening.


kinda a sidenote - has anyone been in once of those lines near the front? I have 1 time for a xbox 360. It's wierd how the mood changes and feels as you approach opening. Xboxes went on sale at Midnight, at 10 pm, the mood definately changed and one loud mouthed girl seemed to spark that change. A cop doing security told her to STFU (literally) or he'd take her ass to jail and she ended up leaving which was win-win for everyone. Cop did control the situation.

now 1 cop couldn't have controlled the Walmart crowds this weekend, but yes, some responsibility does lie with the store

I don't fault that store...I fault corporate. Corporate needs contingency planning for oversized crowds. Should've been done LONG ago as they encourage the mad rush mentality. Their planning should've been handed down to each store...create a line, hand out numbers, etc. It ain't that hard.

Exactly!

They do that here at the Mall of America for the various events (new sotre openings, concerts, autographs etc.) and I have never heard of a injury or stampede... same with events at the Ex or Target Center. If you know you are going to draw a large crowd, plan for it.

well, the question is, does a store manager of Wallyworld hold any responsibility for hiring extra security for events of this nature?

Walmart in my town hired one for xbox360 sales and it came in handy
Walmart in this story stood to make a lot more profits on BF than my WM did for XBox release.

Take $2K out of the anticipated profit for the day and budget for 20 cops for 5 hours and they don't have this issue.

well, the question is, does a store manager of Wallyworld hold any responsibility for hiring extra security for events of this nature?

Walmart in my town hired one for xbox360 sales and it came in handy
Walmart in this story stood to make a lot more profits on BF than my WM did for XBox release.

Take $2K out of the anticipated profit for the day and budget for 20 cops for 5 hours and they don't have this issue.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the wrongful death suit (that is more than likely coming). The corporation owns most of the burden IMO but I would agree that the store management would have some liability as well.

besides, Walmart has deeper pockets than 2000 BF shoppers

The wal-marts here don't close. They just have heavy crowds inside that morning and everybody waits until 5:00 to check out so that the sales prices ring up. No door busting necessary.

ours are normally open 27-7 but they close at midnight in order to prepare.

The wal-marts here don't close. They just have heavy crowds inside that morning and everybody waits until 5:00 to check out so that the sales prices ring up. No door busting necessary.
Thats what we had, ours is a 24hour store so everyone loaded up the cars and waited till 5 to check out.

As for the Long island store, the Police should have been there before 5, that falls on the store not corporate, the store is responsible for its employees safety.

Another thing that happen at that Walmart, a pregnant woman was pushed to the floor and had to be rushed to the hospital, she ended up having a miscarriage. People are insane, and very greedy

Thats what we had, ours is a 24hour store so everyone loaded up the cars and waited till 5 to check out.

As for the Long island store, the Police should have been there before 5, that falls on the store not corporate, the store is responsible for its employees safety.

Another thing that happen at that Walmart, a pregnant woman was pushed to the floor and had to be rushed to the hospital, she ended up having a miscarriage. People are insane, and very greedy

This is the reason for just about every aspect of the current state of affairs, generally speaking.

It is the fault of the crowd, and of anybody whom stepped on him. I know whenever I
step on one of my sons action figures; how in the hell did they not notice a minion underfoot?

Its not walmarts job to supply riot police for a huge crowd that cares more about buying cheap products than some person getting trampled to death. If its walmarts fault then it mcdonalds fault that people get fat from eating there.

Its not walmarts job to supply riot police for a huge crowd that cares more about buying cheap products than some person getting trampled to death. If its walmarts fault then it mcdonalds fault that people get fat from eating there.
Its not comparable, People get fat because the choose to eat there out of their own free will. Mcdonalds cant control someones free will. However, Walmart sees a huge crowd of angry shoppers ready to storm the building and trying to get the doors of the hinges, they need to take the right action and call the police. That guy worked at Walmart out of his own free will, but I bet there was nothing in his employee handbook stating that you run the risk of getting trampled my a riot. Its Walmarts responsibility to supply a safe work environment. That's why we have workers comp pay, because a company is liable if someone gets hurt or killed while working in that establishment. A customer coming into a McD and ordering 7 cheeseburger a day for 5 years and getting fat is not even in the same ballpark. Should Walmart be responsible if you buy an oven there and go home turn it on and put your hand on the burner? If it their fault your an idiot?

Wife and I had a pretty good discussion about this last night. Basically I have the following questions:
- At what point BEFORE the store opened was the large crowd there?
- At what point BEFORE the store opened did the crowd get out of hand?
- HOW did he manage to get trampled? Was he walking over to unlock the doors or did the doors get taken off hinges and he was in "the path".

I'm hesistant to blame Walmart just yet. I fully blame the assbags that took the door off the hinges and those that led the charge. It's going to be hard to blame a lot as you could argue they were being pushed, etc and so on. :shrug:

Wife and I had a pretty good discussion about this last night. Basically I have the following questions:
- At what point BEFORE the store opened was the large crowd there?
- At what point BEFORE the store opened did the crowd get out of hand?
- HOW did he manage to get trampled? Was he walking over to unlock the doors or did the doors get taken off hinges and he was in "the path".

I'm hesistant to blame Walmart just yet. I fully blame the assbags that took the door off the hinges and those that led the charge. It's going to be hard to blame a lot as you could argue they were being pushed, etc and so on. :shrug:

This event has been the topic at the water cooler since it happened... Your questions above have been at the center of the discussions too. For the most part, it seems as though folks believe that there was a point in time that the managment of the store should have reacted to the growing crowd even if it was not in riot mode.

One person brought up the fire code- I know WM are big, but can they legally have 2000+ customers plus employees in the store at the same time. It seems as though they needed crowd control for that aspect alone if Mike was on target about them exceeding the safety limit when it comes to occupants. Anyone know anything about that kind of thing (fire codes)?

This event has been the topic at the water cooler since it happened... Your questions above have been at the center of the discussions too. For the most part, it seems as though folks believe that there was a point in time that the managment of the store should have reacted to the growing crowd even if it was not in riot mode.

One person brought up the fire code- I know WM are big, but can they legally have 2000+ customers plus employees in the store at the same time. It seems as though they needed crowd control for that aspect alone if Mike was on target about them exceeding the safety limit when it comes to occupants. Anyone know anything about that kind of thing (fire codes)?My question:
How big was the crowd? 500? 1,000?
150 people can trample a person, etc. From the pictures I've seen it looks like 500?

Its not comparable, People get fat because the choose to eat there out of their own free will. Mcdonalds cant control someones free will. However, Walmart sees a huge crowd of angry shoppers ready to storm the building and trying to get the doors of the hinges, they need to take the right action and call the police. That guy worked at Walmart out of his own free will, but I bet there was nothing in his employee handbook stating that you run the risk of getting trampled my a riot. Its Walmarts responsibility to supply a safe work environment. That's why we have workers comp pay, because a company is liable if someone gets hurt or killed while working in that establishment. A customer coming into a McD and ordering 7 cheeseburger a day for 5 years and getting fat is not even in the same ballpark. Should Walmart be responsible if you buy an oven there and go home turn it on and put your hand on the burner? If it their fault your an idiot?

Yes they should provide a safe work environment and they did. The environment was safe, the people outside were not. The people that came in caring only about themselves and not the people they were trampling made it dangerous just like if a man walked in with a gun. Now of course a man with a gun and a crowd of people dont usually pose the same threat but in either case if someone gets hurt, walmart didnt endanger anyone but simply made the mistake of not calling for help. I bet the people inside figured there would be pushing and shoving but someone getting trampled to death was probably the last thing on their mind and everyone elses. If walmart loses in court it will only be another example of how we no longer have a "justice" system. What justice will come from making walmart pay the family. The people killed the person not walmart. I cant imagine what the family is going through and Id be angry as well but there is no justice from making the big guy pay. Its a horrible accident that every will or atleast should learn a lesson from.

No criminal charges will be filed... was reported on the local news the other night. This would have been difficult to do unless there was video tape of one or more indentifiable people pushing him to the ground or something.

However for civil penalities I do think Walmart bares some responsibility- they created the situation that caused this. They didn't have to advertise ridiculously limited quanities and have no means to control the crowd before opening the doors.