It makes no sense that there's space, time, matter, or energy- even less sense that there are planets and stars and comets- and don't even get me started on the impossibility of intelligent life- NONE of this is possible - Nothing exist now, nothing should EVER have existed nor should anything happen in the future to change it because there shouldn't even be a future to begin with.

"It makes no sense" - these forces are observable and measureable, so they do exist, even if we don't know how or why. But,how many years before the human race goes extinct? Just a matter of time and then nothing will matter anyway because the "universe" will not have intelligent life to appreciate it, just natural forces acting on one another.

Only some forces are mesurable and observable- the quantum world of which things are based on by all accounts should not exist, should not behave the way they do, and certainly shouldn't be uncertain.

What we know of the universe only works if there's vast amounts of 'dark matter' that has gravity but which we can not see or observe- if there isn't this invisible mass in huge halos around each galaxy then the whole of existance shouldn't be.

So what, you think we are in marbles?

I don't think any of us exist- marbles or not.

"It makes no sense" - these forces are observable and measureable, so they do exist, even if we don't know how or why. But,how many years before the human race goes extinct? Just a matter of time and then nothing will matter anyway because the "universe" will not have intelligent life to appreciate it, just natural forces acting on one another.

Im convinced that there is other intelligent life out there.

....drake equation

Only some forces are mesurable and observable- the quantum world of which things are based on by all accounts should not exist, should not behave the way they do, and certainly shouldn't be uncertain.

quantum theory is still quite young in the grand scheme of things. For centuries Newtonian laws were considered the end all, be all. It took until 1905 and Einstein to figure out that gravity is not actually a force but the curving of space. This type of progression will happen quantum theory but it takes time. And once they do, they will probably be able to finally come up with the Theory of Everything :paper:

Gravity is a force - the bending of space is just a way to think of a 'force' - we really can't explain what a force is, how it works - we try to explain it with fields and such but- bending is a way for it to make sense to our brains but space isn't really bent- you could construct a rigid body that wouldn't bend and place it in a gravity 'field' - in fact it happens all the time...

Gravity is a force - the bending of space is just a way to think of a 'force' - we really can't explain what a force is, how it works - we try to explain it with fields and such but- bending is a way for it to make sense to our brains but space isn't really bent- you could construct a rigid body that wouldn't bend and place it in a gravity 'field' - in fact it happens all the time...

it's more like the other way around, gravity was a force that could not be explained as to how or why until the bending of space was brought up. The same process can be done with a bowling ball, a golf ball and a bed. There is no new "gravity field" between the two balls, it the depression of the bed due to the bowling ball that causes this mysterious force

but the depression of the bed only makes sense when there is still gravity working in a higher plane that we can't explain... We can "see" magnetic field lines when we drop iron filings around a magnet... we can observe the attraction of metal to magnets or the repulsion of like poles- we give orientations to subatomic particles to 'explain' why there is a magnetic 'force' but truly we don't know the why of it anymore than gravity... saying because an atom aligned this way attracts and atom aligned the opposite way is nice on paper but it means as much the same as saying mass attracts mass... :puzzled: the WHY is this so is the underlining key to a unified theory that almost certainly includes higher dimensions where these seemingly unrelated 'forces' just become different sides of the same coin (or better, different faces on a multi-sided die). Eventually everything in the universe will be explained away as simply what happens when a bunch of multi-dimensional octogons spin in some yet unknown dimension or parallel universe... then the only question will be... why are those things spinning and how did they come to be to begin with... which leads to the same answer- it makes no sense that they ever should have existed to begin with.

Gravity is a force.... we really can't explain what a force is, how it works ...
Force is applied any time you push or pull anything, doesn’t mean your going to move said object. Also friction forces start to play into this as well.
Gravity- falling things accelerate so there must be some sort of force being applied to them, other wise they will not fall or the speed will be constant. But when an object feels a force it usually is applied from another object. So what about the force that we call gravity, everything on Earth no matter where they are feels gravity which is directed towards the center of earth. So what does this have to do with anything?

Well Newton concluded that the Earth itself must exert this force. Even all the way to the Moon.

At the surface of the earth, gravity accelerates objects at 9.8 m/s^2. Now the moon moves with an almost perfectly round orbit about the earth, so the centripetal acceleration of the moon is aR=v^2/r

Where:
The moons distance from the earth is 384,000 km and it takes 27.3 days (T), in one orbit the moon travels 2πr. r=384,000. the speed of the moon around the earth is v=2πr/T convert T to seconds=2.36x10^6s
So aR=v^2/r=(2πr)^2/((T^2)*r) running the numbers gives you .000272m/s^2 and in terms of g=9.8m/s^2, like the force on the surface in respect to the moon gives you .000278g or 1/3600. So aR~1/3600g, this means that acc. of the moon toward the earth is 1/3600 that of objects on the earth surface. The moon is 384000 km from earth this is about 60 times the earths radius of 6380km. what the hell does this mean, well it means that the moon is 60 times farther from the earths center then objects on the earths surface. So 60x60 or 60^2=3600. Newton concluded that any gravitational force the earth exerts on any object decrease with the square of its distance r from earths center.
The moon being 60 times the distance of the earths radis away feels a force of 1/(60^2)=1/3600

Newton analyzed that the orbit of the planets in our solar system became less and less with the inverse square of there distance from the sun. this leads to believe that gravity also keeps planets going around the sun.

Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation
Every particle in the universe attracts every other particle with a force that is proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. this force acts along the line joining the two particles.
-Physics for Scientists & Engineers by Douglas C. Giancoli

Here is the Eq. F=G((m1m2)/r^2)

m1 & m2 are the masses and r is the distance between them. So what is G, big G is a constant that is the same for all objects. This number has to be very small, since scientist are not aware of any force of attraction between objects of regular size (like between two cars). However there is a force there and it has been measured.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/47cj2a/crudeexp.jpg

The value is G=6.67x10-11N*m^2/kg^2, once this was discovered some 100 years after Newton died it was tested. By plugging it back into the equation. F,m1,m2, and r were all measurable before. so this number holds true.

so what does this tell us, it tell us that every object exerts a gravitational force on another object no matter how far away. the force just gets really really small

In conclusion thanks for forcing me to open my old physics book to look up some numbers and terminology. I am sure I just proved to you that gravity and force are both very real and measurable. Now if you are arguing that this world some how does not exist, I will tell you that in this non existent world of ours gravity is very real.

That was a pretty complete summary of the equations for gravity... but misses the question of WHY... WHY is there such a thing as an invisible force that attacts all matter to all other matter obeying an inverse square law over large distances? In fact many physisits today belive that over tiny distances, sub-atomic even, that the inverse square law breaks down and it might actually be far less over subatmomic distances because there may be extra spacial dimensions at this magnitude that we have yet to detect...

It's not only gravity but all forces... What is charge for example- I don't need a page out of a textbook explaining positive and negative - I mean really WHAT is charge- what is this characteristic of matter that we've assigned a plus sign or a minus sign to, that we've written equations and laws concerning the movement of them, made conventions as to which is which... The fact that the attractive force of two charges a set distance, or attaction of metal to a magnet are also 'governed' by inverse square laws on mesurable distances tell us that somehow on some level we're dealing with the same fundamental entity be it as gravity, electromagnatism, or the strong and weak nuclear forces... All invisible forces of attraction and repulsion have to be related in a way so simple everyone who puts serious effort into thinking about it, overlook it completely.

“That was a pretty complete summary of the equations for gravity... but misses the question of WHY... WHY is there such a thing as an invisible force that attacts all matter to all other matter obeying an inverse square law over large distances?”


Because all things have matter and mass, this matter and mass is what attracts things together, it holds true for things in close proximity of each other as well, the force is just so small that you don’t feel it. There is a gravitational force between you and your monitor. Even dark matter has mass, even though it cant be recognized like regular matter using electromagnetism it can be detected by the change of gravity (force) on regulare matter.

Lack of understanding of a thing is not evidence of the existence, or lack of existence, of itself or another thing.

You can apply that to your hypothesis that we do not exist, or religion, or a multitude of other stuff.

oh I failed to mention that 99% of the whole universe is Dark Matter. theres an experiment going on deep in some mountain trying to capture this Dark Matter. because it can pass through regular matter (matter=something with mass, like you). so they have to go deep underground to help filter out all of the other things that pass through us (like radiation, and other sub atomic particles)

oh I failed to mention that 99% of the whole universe is Dark Matter. theres an experiment going on deep in some mountain trying to capture this Dark Matter. because it can pass through regular matter (matter=something with mass, like you). so they have to go deep underground to help filter out all of the other things that pass through us (like radiation, and other sub atomic particles)

Couldn't they just use a fat white chick?

The whole dark matter thing is a big red flag in my mind on the current gravity theory... It only 'makes sense' if theres huge amounts of dark matter- matter that can't be seen... matter that apparently can't be touched, put in a container, or photographed... In fact we can see right through it... How do we "KNOW" it exists? Because it MUST exist otherwise the galaxies as we know them would fling themselves apart under our current theory of gravity... :puzzled: So we've decided that the Universe must contain this extra mass somewhere because we are so 'sure' gravity is right the way it is that we're willing to basically be told "God" holds the galaxy together by keeping it in the palm of his hand or a cosmic Atlas holds the universe up and apart - just because scientists have given 'dark matter' a physics-sounding name doesn't change that fact that it is no different then any legend or faith-based answer that humans in 100 or 1000 years will correctly file under 'mythology.'

It makes no sense that there's space, time, matter, or energy- even less sense that there are planets and stars and comets- and don't even get me started on the impossibility of intelligent life- NONE of this is possible - Nothing exist now, nothing should EVER have existed nor should anything happen in the future to change it because there shouldn't even be a future to begin with.

just the reason for it TO exist..to me Nothingness is more of a weird concept than infinite "Somethingness"

The whole dark matter thing is a big red flag in my mind on the current gravity theory... It only 'makes sense' if theres huge amounts of dark matter- matter that can't be seen... matter that apparently can't be touched, put in a container, or photographed... In fact we can see right through it... How do we "KNOW" it exists? Because it MUST exist otherwise the galaxies as we know them would fling themselves apart under our current theory of gravity... :puzzled: So we've decided that the Universe must contain this extra mass somewhere because we are so 'sure' gravity is right the way it is that we're willing to basically be told "God" holds the galaxy together by keeping it in the palm of his hand or a cosmic Atlas holds the universe up and apart - just because scientists have given 'dark matter' a physics-sounding name doesn't change that fact that it is no different then any legend or faith-based answer that humans in 100 or 1000 years will correctly file under 'mythology.'

Because all things have matter and mass, this matter and mass is what attracts things together, it holds true for things in close proximity of each other as well, the force is just so small that you don’t feel it. There is a gravitational force between you and your monitor. Even dark matter has mass, even though it cant be recognized like regular matter using electromagnetism it can be detected by the change of gravity (force) on regulare matter.
.

God.

The whole dark matter thing is a big red flag in my mind on the current gravity theory... It only 'makes sense' if theres huge amounts of dark matter- matter that can't be seen... matter that apparently can't be touched, put in a container, or photographed... In fact we can see right through it... How do we "KNOW" it exists? Because it MUST exist otherwise the galaxies as we know them would fling themselves apart under our current theory of gravity... :puzzled: So we've decided that the Universe must contain this extra mass somewhere because we are so 'sure' gravity is right the way it is that we're willing to basically be told "God" holds the galaxy together by keeping it in the palm of his hand or a cosmic Atlas holds the universe up and apart - just because scientists have given 'dark matter' a physics-sounding name doesn't change that fact that it is no different then any legend or faith-based answer that humans in 100 or 1000 years will correctly file under 'mythology.'
right now, "dark matter" is in the same place ether was back before the Theory of Relativity. I think we just have not found the right theory to explain it yet. But it seems that with every answer we get 3 new questions. But that's how progress works

no intelligent life does exist fact ............or we would have the capability to see/measure etc dark matter and all unknowns would be known.

and if there was a god we would have this ability and not be one step above a virus.(well actually 1 step behind we are much more fragile)

no intelligent life does exist fact ............or we would have the capability to see/measure etc dark matter and all unknowns would be known.

and if there was a god we would have this ability and not be one step above a virus.(well actually 1 step behind we are much more fragile)
we will eventually prove that "dark matter" will just be a fudge factor of something we didn't quite understand.

this is just a SWAG but "dark matter", the uncertainties of quantum physics and a complete equation for weak forces will come out of a simple thought experiment. It's getting this experiment that will be the issue though :ohyeah:



intelligent life is a relative term :paper:

right now, "dark matter" is in the same place ether was back before the Theory of Relativity. I think we just have not found the right theory to explain it yet. But it seems that with every answer we get 3 new questions. But that's how progress works

yup dark matter is simply a place holder to make equations work

yup dark matter is simply a place holder to make equations work

can you tell I'm reading that Einstein biography? :rotflmao:

Wouldn't it be cool if gravity started getting STRONGER, or at least, stopped getting as weak as quickly at some huge distance- that would also negate the need for dark matter. We talk about extra dimensions that are so small they can't be seen or noticed but what if the dimensions we CAN see and live in are more finite than the universe... maybe length, height, and depth are finite and not of equal size...

... maybe length, height, and depth are finite and not of equal size...

Height and depth are used to descripe the dimensions of something.. ie.. that box has a height of X and a depth of Y

lenght is a word given to describe height and depth... ie... the lenght is in Km or cm or miles

so yes lenght, depth and height are not aways of equal size (value)

unless i totaly missed what you are trying to say