The war on God...

I'm not a religious person. I never have been. My parents were not religious, nor were even my Grandparents (the living ones anyway.) However by family tradition we might be described as Roman Catholic. My parents were baptized and confirmed. My sister and I were baptized but never confirmed.

I like to hear what the Pope has to say but I don't believe he has any more insight into God than anyone else.

I know I do not believe in the God described in the Bible. Neither Old Testament nor New. But I do believe there is likely something more to our existence than currently explained by science. I believe in some kind of soul, something that continues on after the death of the body. Why? What is the evidence? It just feels right. Ghost stories, deja-vu feelings, children recalling past lives... there is something.

I can't prove it, it likely can't be proved- but the honest truth is just because something can't be proven doesn't mean it isn't real- there is at least the possibility of an afterlife. There is also possibility of a "creator" or a being we might describe as God even if he didn't create the world in 6 days.

What I see more and more are people, usually those claiming to be scientists, trying to force their belief that there is no God. Why is it so important to these people that other people don't believe in God? I suspect individually the anti-God crowd thinks they're doing a public service. They think they're teaching people the truth by attempting to disprove God.

I submit many of these individuals have become patsys in a larger, more nefarious plot. We are probably within a generation now of basically declaring God illegal. It will be considered a Hate Crime to pray in public.

What will be accomplished with the death of God?

I submit the idea of separate of Church and State has been extended to be a separation of God and State. However a separate of God and State wad never intended by the founders, nor should it be considered by our courts. But hat is what this country is moving towards.

What many fighting against the concept of God forget though is that our entire system of government, especially rights guaranteed in our Constitution and Bill of Rights are rights considered to be given by God, that no man should be able to take away. Without God there is no higher power to grant us the rights we take for granted.

Without God our rights are merely granted by other men (and women) and there is no compelling reason they can't be changed- or revoked.

I submit there is a coordinated and intentional attack on God as an ultimate means to destroy the United States and the freedoms it stood for.

You cannot separate America from God. You can keep Church and State separate but you can not and should not attempt to separate God and State.

The pope is the antiChrist. This new is part of his plan

How very tinfoil hat of you Joe.

Whatever messages "the masses" are being exposed to would be relayed through mainstream corporate media channels. So if the messages are largely anti-God, then logic would say that the large corporations that own those media channels and other commercial industries don't want God to be a part of the American consumer's life.

That, or maybe television programming managers realize that controversy arising from religion attracts a lot of viewers.

Dan Keizer said:

Whatever messages "the masses" are being exposed to would be relayed through mainstream corporate media channels. So if the messages are largely anti-God, then logic would say that the large corporations that own those media channels and other commercial industries don't want God to be a part of the American consumer's life.

That, or maybe television programming managers realize that controversy arising from religion attracts a lot of viewers.

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I never really gave it much credence but that would certainly fit with those saying our political and corporate leaders are moving to establish a "new world order" that would be without the basic freedoms traditionally guaranteed by the US Constitution / Bill of Rights.

Just off the top of my head, churches own property and run services that can't be taxed which irks politicians, they provide something of a legal loophole practicing certain things that would otherwise be illegal and they serve traditionally as community gathering points for certain grassroots movements that don't go along with the state's agenda. The civil rights movement would be an example.

Not to suggest that churches are some bastion of freedom but in many ways they can rival state and corporate entities.

I don't believe in God, gods, goddesses, spirits, faeries, trolls, ghosts, Santa Clause, or the Easter Bunny. That said, it's really, really hard to disprove the existence of a being who you cannot physically see, hear, smell, or otherwise directly know of, because it's not physical, it's "of the spirit world." Perfect disguise and camouflage, and perfect excuse. So, while I don't personally for a second believe it, I cant disprove it. Fine, let people believe what they want, and I'll keep my opinion fairly well hidden. Even if I think they are idiots.

Al Johnson said:

I don't believe in God, gods, goddesses, spirits, faeries, trolls, ghosts, Santa Clause, or the Easter Bunny. That said, it's really, really hard to disprove the existence of a being who you cannot physically see, hear, smell, or otherwise directly know of, because it's not physical, it's "of the spirit world." Perfect disguise and camouflage, and perfect excuse. So, while I don't personally for a second believe it, I cant disprove it. Fine, let people believe what they want, and I'll keep my opinion fairly well hidden. Even if I think they are idiots.

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So you believe the death of the physical body is the complete end of existence?

Do you ever look at everything around you and wonder, "why?"

Like... why was there a big bang to begin with? Why was there even space? Why was whatever around for their to be a big bang? Energy? Dimensions... time...The further I think back I ultimately can only conclude that the universe doesn't exist... but it does... and that incompatibility is God.

Unless you want to go back to caveman logic, "we don't understand" is not evidence of a god or gods.

All of your "why" questions are equally valid for for god/gods as they are for the big bang, time and space, etc.

skeptic said:

Unless you want to go back to caveman logic, "we don't understand" is not evidence of a god or gods.

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Is your position that in year 2015 science explains everything we know about the universe and all existence? If so I would be curious at approximately what year you believe science achieved this?

Obviously, science has far from all the answers. Far, far from. Your questions regarding why there was a big bang, why is there space, to me do not have meaning. There was a big bang, there is space. There is no "why." The human need to have reasons for things is not always applicable or meaningful. We like to see reasons; that doesn't mean they must exist.
Yes, death is the end. Sorry, you are not immortal in any way. That bacon you had for breakfast? Well, piggy is dead, dead, dead. And so are you and I after we die. Sorry about that. Again, the human lack of understanding of the state of not being, does not stop that state from existing. I'm not immune from these lacks of understanding obviously. I don't "get" why I live in this head on this body at this particular location in time and space, and I can't wrap my mind around what happens after death in a way that I can really feel that I understand it. Nevertheless, all evidence that I see says when you dead, you dead. Bye-bye.

Al Johnson said:

Obviously, science has far from all the answers. Far, far from. Your questions regarding why there was a big bang, why is there space, to me do not have meaning. There was a big bang, there is space. There is no "why.

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Of course there is a why, there is always a why. Your system of beliefs just doesn't give you a tool to even attempt to explain the why so you arbitrarily decided that there is no "why" for these things.

Al Johnson said:

We like to see reasons; that doesn't mean they must exist.

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Actually if you subscribe to modern science then yes, everything must have a reason. Every collision of molecules, every firing of a neuron, given enough information about the starting conditions in theory you could predict everything.

Al Johnson said:

Yes, death is the end. Sorry, you are not immortal in any way. That bacon you had for breakfast? Well, piggy is dead, dead, dead. And so are you and I after we die. Sorry about that. Again, the human lack of understanding of the state of not being, does not stop that state from existing. I'm not immune from these lacks of understanding obviously. I don't "get" why I live in this head on this body at this particular location in time and space, and I can't wrap my mind around what happens after death in a way that I can really feel that I understand it. Nevertheless, all evidence that I see says when you dead, you dead. Bye-bye.

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All "evidence" says that? You've never seen a ghost? Felt a presence in a room? Had a dream that felt different than all other dreams you had? Talked to a "psychic" or had a friend go to a "psychic" that knew unique things no one could possibly know decades before Facebook or Google? No experience that was solid enough for you to question the current scientifically accepted model of the universe?

BirdOPrey5 said:

Of course there is a why, there is always a why. Your system of beliefs just doesn't give you a tool to even attempt to explain the why so you arbitrarily decided that there is no "why" for these things.



Actually if you subscribe to modern science then yes, everything must have a reason. Every collision of molecules, every firing of a neuron, given enough information about the starting conditions in theory you could predict everything.



All "evidence" says that? You've never seen a ghost? Felt a presence in a room? Had a dream that felt different than all other dreams you had? Talked to a "psychic" or had a friend go to a "psychic" that knew unique things no one could possibly know decades before Facebook or Google? No experience that was solid enough for you to question the current scientifically accepted model of the universe?

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No more arbitrary that insisting that there must be a "why."

Science says there are causes, not reasons, if you take causes to be physical and reasons to be deeper meanings.

Nope, never experienced any of those things.

Al Johnson said:

Science says there are causes, not reasons, if you take causes to be physical and reasons to be deeper meanings.

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Fine, then what caused the big bang? What caused spacial dimensions and time to exist?

Al Johnson said:

Nope, never experienced any of those things.

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And I guess you believe the millions who have are either wrong or purposely lying?

BirdOPrey5 said:

So you believe the death of the physical body is the complete end of existence?

Do you ever look at everything around you and wonder, "why?"

Like... why was there a big bang to begin with? Why was there even space? Why was whatever around for their to be a big bang? Energy? Dimensions... time...The further I think back I ultimately can only conclude that the universe doesn't exist... but it does... and that incompatibility is God.

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You are correct in the sense that a God is possible, and its easy to say its certainly not based in any religious dogma that we've created. If I had to guess I would say the death is the end of existence, and the question why will never be answered because it doesn't need to be. I think we as humans have such ridiculous large brains and large egos to go with it, that to accept the fact that we do not matter, and there likely is not purpose renders life pointless and we really like being alive and reproducing, but we like to pretend it means something. It probably doesnt. The universe simply does not require us to exist.

BirdOPrey5 said:

Fine, then what caused the big bang? What caused spacial dimensions and time to exist?



And I guess you believe the millions who have are either wrong or purposely lying?

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Insufficient information, which is the same as saying "No clue."

Millions who have are either right, and I'm wrong, which is entirely possible, OR they are wrong or have been misled by someone with an agenda. I won't accuse most of them of lying, but there are a few liars in the bunch somewhere.

I think Jerk nailed it.

BirdOPrey5 said:

Is your position that in year 2015 science explains everything we know about the universe and all existence? If so I would be curious at approximately what year you believe science achieved this?

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I have no idea how you could possibly have come to this conclusion as what I stated is exactly the opposite. Let me restate: Our scientific understanding of the universe currently cannot explain everything, but lack of understanding is not evidence of god.

Why do we exist? Why is there space? Why was there a big bang? etc. etc. etc. Questions like this are valid whether we are talking about god or science.

skeptic said:

I have no idea how you could possibly have come to this conclusion as what I stated is exactly the opposite. Let me restate: Our scientific understanding of the universe currently cannot explain everything, but lack of understanding is not evidence of god

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I never said it was, but it certainly leaves room that there might be a God or afterlife, or something beyond what we currently know.

The evidence is all around us. We're not alone. You just have to open your mind and see what is all around us.

BirdOPrey5 said:

I never said it was, but it certainly leaves room that there might be a God or afterlife, or something beyond what we currently know.

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Of course. To me the idea of god or an afterlife is just silly, fairy tales told to children to make them feel better just like when you tell a kid their dog went to go live on a farm. Also useful to explain shit you otherwise don't understand, and of course it's a very effective way to control the masses.. The convenient bit is nobody will ever be able to prove the truth one way or the other will 100% certainty.

You either believe or you don't believe. Both sides think the other is nuts in some way, but if we just accept that the other has opposite beliefs and leave it at that we are all good. I come from a Catholic family, and I'm the only non-believer. Hell, my 4 year old niece said grace before dinner last night. The whole concept of god and religion is just foreign to me, the same as Roman gods (probably) are to you. One Christian god or a group of Roman gods is all the same in my mind, but I still try to be respectful of other's beliefs. That is until someone tries forcing their religious beliefs on me.