ClownFish [JU]
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You are one of those frustrated individuals that is clinging to guns. Someday you will be crying over the shattered body of a loved one that was just getting a glass of water in the middle of the night.
Handguns serve no purpose
- Thread starter ClownFish [JU]
- Start date
MightyMightyCJ [JU]
Archived
Yeah, it's an old troll, but I'll play it straight.
Let's assume for a moment that removing all guns from the country completely is possible. The result of that will be that the weak are at the mercy of the strong, the one at the mercy of the gang, the old at the mercy of the young, and all of us at the mercy of the government. Is that what you wish for society?
pirranah [JU]
Archived
doubt it
ClownFish [JU]
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The police are to serve and protect. Not lynch mob justice.
You actually think your pea shooters can stop the government?
FischInAJeep [JU]
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So did all the ones that have.
bignastyGS [JU]
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Wrong... My dad was a collector and avid hunter (I'm not though) and he loved to hunt with his guns.When he passed away,I inherited them. I plan to give them to my 4 kids,as well as nephews when the time is right. I haven't shot any of my guns in a year or more.So, these have been more harmless than my cars to be honest.
MightyMightyCJ [JU]
Archived
Not so. The courts consistantly find that the police are under no obligation to protect anyone. Untill that changes, and the police have the resources to protect me and mine 24/7/365, I will retain the means to protect myself.
Not mine alone, but everybody's together certainly will.You actually think your pea shooters can stop the government?
ClownFish [JU]
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In your case, there is no loved one to worry about.
ClownFish [JU]
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If there weren't any guns, they would have the resources.
The Iraqis find that IEDs are more effective than guns against the US Gubment. You aren't going to take out a tank with grandpas 12ga.
ClownFish [JU]
Archived
So sentimentality is more important than the thousands of children that die as a result of gun violence everyday?
Can you guarantee your kids will be responsible gun owners? Can you ensure those guns will never be stolen and/or never used in a crime?
Just how many people have you killed with your car?
pirranah [JU]
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I LOVE MY DOG
skimblz [JU]
Archived
I completely agree with the statement that in a CIVILIZED society, they wouldn't be needed. But our society today (either as a country or a planet) is anything but civilized.
When you look at the crime rate, when you look at the shooting sprees at schools, malls, and churches, when you see terrorists flying planes into buildings, the notion of civilized is pretty much pointless.
I consider myself civilized most of the time. I have no desire to take a human life, but if somebody is threatening my loved ones, I'll pick the lowlife vs letting them hurt my family. I wish defending myself and my family wasn't required. But reality dictates otherwise. While I can carry, my wife hates guns, much as you seem to. Yet she understands the need for protection. She carries a taser and my daughter carries Kimber's Guardian spray. Much like insurance, it is one of those things you hope to never need, but if you do, you are very glad you have it.
Looking at other countries where guns are banned, other types of crime are rather high. Look at the crime stats for England. While crimes may not be committed with guns, they have high assault rates with other objects and people don't really have the means to effectively protect themselves.
You may consider guns unnecessary and evil. That's your choice. As a citizen of the US, the 2nd amendment allows for the individual right to keep and bear arms. You mention the term militia, but you neglect the other half of that amendment. It has been shown that when the term individual is used in the BoR, that it applies to individual persons, not a group (militia). This is one of the arguments of the Heller vs DC case before the Supreme Court right now.
Also keep in mind, is that many CCW holders have to go to training and practice to qualify for a permit, nevermind that they generally have to pass background checks as well. That is more than just Joe Somebody going and picking a gun up. Those that just buy the gun and carry illegally concern me as well. I don't worry about the legal CCW carriers.
If you want a country free of guns legally being in the hands of citizens, you have options. But no matter where you go, you will find those who have them illegally.
But then again, our society is not civilized.
When you look at the crime rate, when you look at the shooting sprees at schools, malls, and churches, when you see terrorists flying planes into buildings, the notion of civilized is pretty much pointless.
I consider myself civilized most of the time. I have no desire to take a human life, but if somebody is threatening my loved ones, I'll pick the lowlife vs letting them hurt my family. I wish defending myself and my family wasn't required. But reality dictates otherwise. While I can carry, my wife hates guns, much as you seem to. Yet she understands the need for protection. She carries a taser and my daughter carries Kimber's Guardian spray. Much like insurance, it is one of those things you hope to never need, but if you do, you are very glad you have it.
Looking at other countries where guns are banned, other types of crime are rather high. Look at the crime stats for England. While crimes may not be committed with guns, they have high assault rates with other objects and people don't really have the means to effectively protect themselves.
You may consider guns unnecessary and evil. That's your choice. As a citizen of the US, the 2nd amendment allows for the individual right to keep and bear arms. You mention the term militia, but you neglect the other half of that amendment. It has been shown that when the term individual is used in the BoR, that it applies to individual persons, not a group (militia). This is one of the arguments of the Heller vs DC case before the Supreme Court right now.
Also keep in mind, is that many CCW holders have to go to training and practice to qualify for a permit, nevermind that they generally have to pass background checks as well. That is more than just Joe Somebody going and picking a gun up. Those that just buy the gun and carry illegally concern me as well. I don't worry about the legal CCW carriers.
If you want a country free of guns legally being in the hands of citizens, you have options. But no matter where you go, you will find those who have them illegally.
But then again, our society is not civilized.
Bullitt [JU]
Archived
All gun owners are ignorant, weak minded, barbarians who should 
now. Let Law enforcement and government do their jobs, trust me they don't need your help.
now. Let Law enforcement and government do their jobs, trust me they don't need your help.ClownFish [JU]
Archived
So we just escalate the problem instead of fixing it and never rise above a barbaric society.
With no guns the school and gang shootings would not happen.
Sounds like your wife and daughter are indeed civilized.
We'll see what the supreme court says, but militia is the National Guard. Not yokels with guns.
Those training classes are a joke.
And those that have them should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
ClownFish [JU]
Archived
Twisted.
skimblz [JU]
Archived
BTW, you'd probably be shocked at the number of people around you (and some you probably know) that carry concealed responsibly when out in public...So we just escalate the problem instead of fixing it and never rise above a barbaric society.
With no guns the school and gang shootings would not happen.
Problem is, you'll never get rid of all guns, and today's laws only keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Criminals have shown a disregard for obeying the law.
Sounds like your wife and daughter are indeed civilized.
Most of the time.
We'll see what the supreme court says, but militia is the National Guard. Not yokels with guns.
The National Guard did not exist when the BoR was written. Other than the Continental Army, not much was there. The militia seemed to be any able-bodied man at that time.
The 2A specifically states:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Every amendment referring to "people" has been determined to be an individual right (1st, 4th, 5th, etc), and not dependent on the militia. Gun opponents always focus on the "well regulated militia" as the basis for their argument and tend to neglect the rest of the amendment's phrasing.
Those training classes are a joke.
I agree, quite a few are. There are also quite a few private companies offering excellent training in handling firearms, when to use, and how to follow and understand the laws for using as well as conceal carrying. But even those classes can educate and make one more responsible. It is all in how the firearm owner responds to it.
And those that have them should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Illegal owners? I completely agree. For those of us who have purchased legally, taken proper training, and use them responsibly? Sounds the foundations for dictatorship.
Thomas Jefferson even stated multiple times his stance of citizen ownership.
"I think the truth must now be obvious that our people are too happy at home to enter into regular service, and that we cannot be defended but by making every citizen a soldier, as the Greeks and Romans who had no standing armies; and that in doing this all must be marshaled, classed by their ages, and every service ascribed to its competent class."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Wayles Eppes, 1814.
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824.
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them."
--Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. ME 9:341
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).
ClownFish [JU]
Archived
Jefferson said those things based on an insecurity and an unwillingness to have a regular standing army - common fears because of Oliver Cromwell's Protectorship which left deep resentment and fear of military dictatorship in all those who were of English descent. Also there was the cost of a standing army... which the fledgling government could not afford. Not to mention the on going conflicts - when you are in a guerrilla war you had better be armed at all times.
Surely after 200 plus years we should have progressed from a lawless society where it is every man for himself.
Surely after 200 plus years we should have progressed from a lawless society where it is every man for himself.
Taggart [JU]
Archived
The crime rate is about as low as it's ever been historically, "shooting sprees" are extremely rare, and so are planes flying into buildings--as if that's ever going to be allowed to happen again, or you having a gun would make any difference.
You make a very poor case.Taggart [JU]
Archived
When and where did you take yours?
tattooedwhitetrash [JU]
Archived
i got mine
and the only way they ever be taken away from me is after my last gun fight
I was born 6-gun in my hand
Behind a gun I'll make my final stand
That's why they call me Bad company
And I can't deny
It's the way I play
Dirty for dirty
Oh Somebody Double-crossed me
Yeah
We're Bad company
Kill in cold blood
Under the lights where we stand tall
Nobody touches us at all
Showdown, shootout, spread fear within, without
We're gonna take what's ours to have
Spread the word throughout the land
They say the bad guys wear black
We're tagged and can't turn back
You see us comin'
And you all together run for cover
We're takin over this town
Here we come reach for your gun
And you better listen well my friend, you see
It's been slow down below,
Aimed at you we're the cowboys from hell
Deed is done again, we've won
Ain't talking no tall tales friend
'Cause high noon, your doom
Comin' for you we're the cowboys from hell
Pillage the village, trash the scene
but better not take it out on me
'Cause a ghost town is found
Where your city used to be
So out of the darkness and into the light
Sparks fly everywhere in sight
From my double barrel, 12 gauge,
Can't lock me in your cage
You see us comin'
And you all together run for cover
We're takin over this town
Here we come reach for your gun
And you better listen my friend, you see
It's been slow down below,
Aimed at you we're the cowboys from hell
Deed is done again, we've won
Ain't talking no tall tales friend
'Cause high noon, your doom
Comin' for you we're the cowboys from hell